listenN:

Well, hello, Shoana. Welcome to listenN.

Shoana Prasad:

Thank you for having me. 

listenN:

Oh, it’s great to talk to you. I’m really interested in having this conversation because I would love to dive into your expertise in communication, how you work with people around developing a personal communication style. But first of all, I would like to get a bit of a background in how did you end up, you know, in front of corporate giants and individuals of all different walks of life, helping them with their personal communication skills?

Shoana Prasad:

Well, would it be inappropriate to say the whole thing was a happy coincidence

listenN:

As life has a tendency to be right?

Shoana Prasad:

That’s exactly it there’s a plan and then there’s life, but this happy accident was truly a happy accident. I grew up in a very small town. My parents were very, what can I say, flexible with my spirited being and attitude and come high school. Um, theater is really what I wanted to do. And of course my father wanted me to have a job. So I was able to merge both, both wants and needs. And I went into a program which is really niche and it’s called drama in education. It’s really taking a kinesthetic approach to learning. So most of my friends and colleagues went into teaching, which made a lot of sense. And I ended up coming to the city, working with festivals, in arts administration. So that took me through a couple of festivals here in the city, most notably the Toronto Film Festival.

listenN:

So hang on, sorry. I’m going to interrupt you right there. Cause I just want to go back to, and I’m not going to say it right, but you said focused on kinesthetic…

Shoana Prasad:

Kinesthetic learning.

listenN:

So explain what does that mean?

Shoana Prasad:

Okay. So kinesthetic learning is really an approach where you’re learning by doing, you’re learning through action, you’re getting up and doing it. So, this is the absolute backbone of what I use every day with clients, because people could read a book or do an online course, quite frankly, on how to present, but it’s somewhat like, you know, reading a book on how to water ski, you gotta get up, you gotta do it. You gotta fall, you got to fail. You got to find your balance. You can’t just do it by reading about it. And that’s really the whole premise of drama in education and this approach of kinesthetic learning.

listenN:

Okay. So, what you’re saying is I’ve never climbed Mount Everest, even though I’ve read the book about climbing Mount Everest. I get it right. Okay. So now back to your story, sorry. So now you’re at the Toronto Film Festival.

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah. I came to the Toronto Film Festival and I was booking speakers for televised panels and symposiums. So that really meant that I was booking a lot of industry experts and a lot of studio heads. And we were trying to glean what their insight was to the current trends and where things were going. And what we found is we had a lot of, you know, big names and well-known folks, but once we got them up on the panel and the lights went on and the camera started to roll, they would do what any normal human being does in some scenarios where they feel uncomfortable and they would freeze. So then heads swung to me and said, hey, you’ve got a background in theater. Can you prep these people before they get up? So that became a little bit of a sidebar for me.

So I did arts administration through TIFF and other festivals here in Toronto, in New York as well. And that’s what I did. I prepped speakers. And in that process, I started to see that it really doesn’t matter how smart, how witty, how good looking, what kind of car you drive. If you don’t know how to connect and communicate, it doesn’t really matter how smart you are because we’re not getting the benefit of what, you know, simply because your biology is working against you. Essentially. I think the thing that became very real to me very quickly is people are people and at its core, people are animals. And so anytime we’re under threat and we feel as though we’re not safe, then that affects the way we can really connect. So again, it really doesn’t matter how old you are, what your position is. And I say this even to this day, whether I’m working with C-suite or someone who’s entry level, it really doesn’t matter if you haven’t had the time experience and a guide or a coach to take you through the process, to just calm everything down and just find your focus. Then that’s a journey that wherever you start, you’re going to have to walk.

And that sort of leads me into a sort of present day situation where a lot of people due to, you know, one the shifting work environment, but it’s also been fast-tracked by the pandemic where people are now having to communicate over the internet in Zoom calls, in all sorts of ways that they’re not comfortable with, even if they used to be able to sneak into a meeting room and hide in the corner they’re now on screen and having to participate by using their language and their voice. So I just find this a very poignant time to have this conversation with you. That’s why I’m so interested in this, let’s go to sort of like ground zero,. How does someone’s personal communication, whether they are skills or habits, or just the way they do things, how does that all start? And then how do you kind of dissect that?

It really starts with helping them gain awareness on how they come across now. You know, it’s like anything, before you know where you want to go, you gotta know where you’re starting from. Right? And this piece is really all about helping people understand what do other people see in them. So there’s a series of questions around what kind of feedback have you gotten? What kind of peer conversations have you had? What kind of performance reviews have shared insight into what you may or may not know? Because here’s the beauty of what’s happening now between what has happened in a more traditional workspace, which is everyone gets their big jug of coffee and they wander into the boardroom and everyone is doing their thing. People can see in you, but you aren’t always aware of what people are seeing in you.

The thing that’s happening now, online, is as you’re speaking and communicating you’re actually watching yourself. People are feeling like, Oh my God, that’s how I really speak. Like I tilt my head or that’s how I use my hands or all of these micro expressions that people naturally have. People are seeing that on screen. So one or two things are happening. People are completely freaked out and they actually either put a post-it note or they put hide screen on their camera, or they lean into the fact that, oh, I had no idea I did that. So it’s that piece of awareness that we really need from the very beginning, and I take everything through the lens of what’s your executive brand, which is just a fancy way of saying what’s your personal brand, right? I don’t love everything about Jeff Bezos.

Cause this is his definition, but I will say, I love his definition of brand, which is your brand is what people say about you after you leave the room. So the first question I ask clients is what are people saying about you after you leave the room?

listenN:

Oh, wow. That’s very powerful.

Shoana Prasad:

Well, and that’s again where I get a sense of how aware people are. And then the next question, which is even better is when I say now, what do you want people to say about you after you leave the room? And it’s really the gap in between the brand audit and the definition of brand that is my work. I mean, that’s the space I play in. So that’s really how it all starts.

listenN:

That’s fascinating. Now, do you find that there’s a lot of people who, um, that gap is huge. In other words, their interpretation of what they think they’re leaving behind when they leave the room and what others have picked up, is it in your experience? Is that like a 20% gap or is it an 80% gap on the average person?

Shoana Prasad:

Right. You know in most cases, it’s not huge. I would say if we really look at it, someone who is unaware and I say this with a very kind heart and I’m also grateful to say that I’ve seen this very little in my 20 plus years, although I have seen it. People who are deeply unaware are generally people who are fairly arrogant. They think quite highly of themselves. Right. And in many cases, not everyone shares that attitude toward that person. They share the attitude of arrogance, but they don’t share the they think a lot about them attitude. So, really the gap in between, I would say for the average, I don’t think it’s anything more than 15%, maybe 20%.

listenN:

That’s helpful.

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, you also have to appreciate the two types of clients that tend to come my way. So there’s either, you know, there is this small percentage where there’s companies who have a lot of development programs for their people and they tend to offer a lot of development opportunities. And so here and there, I’m getting people who are in quote unquote, invited by HR to come in and participate in this style of training. And sometimes I get some real resistance with those folks. But most often I’m working with people who want to be there. So they’re already leaning in, they already know what they’re good at and where they’re not so great and where there’s opportunity in many cases, people are already in before we start. And like anything Brian, like that makes all the difference.

listenN:

Exactly. Yeah. I guess that’s funny because I was thinking of it more from that other group of, you know, you must go and become better because everybody thinks you suck. And I’m not projecting.

As somebody who was in the advertising industry, I was in sales. I was in so many sort of frontward facing businesses. And I’ve been in so many presentations. I would die just to have somebody help me get better at that, because as you said, that feeling of fear or fight or flight or whatever happens to us animals when we’re in a place where we don’t feel safe, can be very, very debilitating and, you know, to be able to have somebody help you work through that I think would be priceless and I also think it’s something that people don’t even know exists.

Shoana Prasad:

Well, yeah. It’s funny you say that because I’ve been in many scenarios, whether it be dinner parties once upon a time or the dog park and people would say, what do you do? Which is always a bit of a big question. And it’s probably heard more in the city than others, but yeah, it’s the whole oh, I didn’t even know that this job was a thing. And quite frankly, I did neither until I started to do it. Right? But it’s super niche. And I try very hard to stay in my lane because there are other coaches and consultants that do variations of this communication stuff and they do it much better than I do. So I really stick to how do you communicate and make impact visual, vocal and verbal, and really from the angle of your oral communications, even folks who come to me and say, oh, can you help me with writing style? Like, no. In fact, when you find someone, please let me know, because I could probably use a little bit of help with that too,

listenN:

Everybody has a fear of public speaking or most people do. And, we sort of speak in public a lot when it’s not defined as public speaking.

Shoana Prasad:

Well, that’s exactly right, because really my definition of presenting is every time you open your mouth, you’re presenting in many cases, people who I’m working with it’s quite debilitating for them. And it’s a source of actual anxiety. There’s two things that are happening. Number one, I’m always trying to comfort people and say, listen, you’re just talking. That’s all you’re doing. You’re just talking. Now, if you’re talking in front of a room of a hundred people, then sure, you’re the one doing the majority of the talking, but you’re still trying to connect one-on-one with everyone in that room. And the other piece for people who are incredibly nervous is to invite people to not think about themselves so much, because when we’re thinking about ourselves, we’re judging ourselves. We’ve got those old tapes running in our head about all the things that people said to us when we were young or that comment that grade three teacher told us when we were making our first presentation with our cue cards about our cat, right? We have all of these old messages in our head telling us why we’re not good at this and why we’ve always been told we’re not good at this. You’ve got to get beyond that. And, I’m not suggesting this is easy, but you really have to, you have to get over yourself in order to really see the runway in front of you.

listenN:

So give me an example of helping somebody get over themselves, because I’ll give you a personal example. I have done both, I have done presentations that I walk out of and people are just like, Oh my God, that was amazing. And I don’t necessarily feel like they were good, but every one that I’ve done that hasn’t gone well goes to the core of my insecurity of yes, Brian, that’s why you suck at this. And so walk me down that path a little bit about how you help people kind of get out of their own way.

Shoana Prasad:

Well, that’s easily answered because part of the process that I use is when I’m first meeting with somebody, there’s obviously a little bit of back and forth, and I want to get a sense of who they are and what they want and objectives and those types of things. And then we go straight into the coaching. And so what that means is part of my process is I use camera and on-camera feedback and analysis in order to play back, what we can both see in what’s good about the client or what needs to be improved upon. So I’ll say, okay, listen, Brian, I want you to chat for 60 to 90 seconds about anything about work that’s meaningful to you. So you could be talking about a new project, a new initiative, anything that you have coming up.

I just get you to chat on camera for, like I said, 60 to 90 seconds, we play that back and we play that back with no sound. And the reason we’re playing it back with no sound is because 55% of the impression that people get of us is through how we look and the non-verbal. So that’s not likely new information to you or anyone listening, but the whole point is over half of the impression comes through the non-verbal. So we want to look back on it non-verbally and say, do we see some of the words that you’ve identified as part of how you want people to see you? So that’s the first piece. Then the second time around, I’ll play the clip and we’ll listen to it. And then at the very close of their quote unquote presentation, what I do as standard procedure is I keep the camera rolling.

And so we see that person and their quote unquote presentation, and then they just turn back into who they are. And then I’ll say, Hey, so what do you think? How’d that go? Is that how you typically would do it? They would say, I felt like I stumbled here. I did that. And all of a sudden the hands are moving and there’s lots of inflection and they’re just back to being themselves again. Right. So as we play that back, then I say, okay, do you see a difference when you were presenting? And when you stopped presenting, and that’s usually the moment where people go, Oh, right. And I can tell you, 99% of the time, they are dramatically better in the second take, because they’re just talking, which is the point. And they’re not thinking about themselves. They’re thinking about the question I just asked them, therein lies the two points that I’m always making, which is you’re just talking and stop thinking about yourself. So it’s kind of sneaky. And if anything, it’s like the camera does half my work, because I’m like, well, there you are. Welcome back. Where’d you go?

listenN:

Oh, that’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. I was on your website and I noticed your statement – message sent message received. And I thought again, very powerful because in the business world, I’m so used to working with people and also myself where it’s all about getting our message sent. Did we tell them everything we needed to tell them, especially when you do a new business pitch or something, you walk in the door, you’ve never met these people, you get in front of them and you start telling them about yourself or your business or whatever. And it’s all just sent, sent, sent, sent, and then you walk out the door and everybody gets in the car and goes, I think that went really well. And then your feedback from them down the road is well we would have liked to have learned more about this or that or whatever. And you learn that what you said didn’t get received. And that I think is such a dichotomy out there, right?

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah. A hundred percent. And I would say that’s even more of a challenge with the online right now, because as a speaker in a traditional presentation mode, there’s a certain amount of control. We’ve built the deck, we’ve got the content, I’ve rehearsed it. So I know my stuff. And then it becomes almost like a little bit of a teeny tiny monologue where it just all goes out. That’s really a one-way mode of communication where your words are going out. The only way this works, and this is easier in person. And this is our challenge for all of us online is we want to see the nonverbal coming back to us, which says, yeah. Hmm, interesting. Where people are nodding their head, or they’ve got that squint in their eyes that says, Hmm, that gave me pause for thought, because I hadn’t really seen it from that angle before, or people are writing notes or people are picking up their phone, which is also a message back that you may or may not be hitting the Mark. You may not be getting to the point or what is resonating with the other side. So when you’re speaking, that’s simply just a one-way. If you’re delivering the information, that’s all you’re doing is delivering it. There’s really, no guarantee that people are getting what you’re saying. It just means that you said it.

listenN:

That’s a great segue into something I wanted to ask you about, I’m going go back to presenting in the advertising business again, and there’s times where I’ve walked into presentations and there’s a group of people and there’s all sorts of different messages coming at you from all different types of people. So somebody is on their phone, or I did a presentation once where the client who I had met, who invited us to talk to a larger group to sell them on a concept scowled at us the entire time we were presenting. So we thought we were doing something wrong. We were constantly in the back of our brains going, what’s wrong. He looks so mad at us and it just turned out to be his resting face. And, he ended up loving us at the end and congratulating us on doing a great job, but he almost ruined it for us because we’re like, I thought you were our ally and you’re sitting there scowling at me. So how do you help people filter through all the different responses they could be getting and not, again, start to feel that anxiety and fear of I’m screwing up or they’re not getting it. Like, how do you calm that the hell down?

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah. I’ve had the same scenario where I remember years ago, I was at a pharmaceutical company in Montreal. I had probably about 150 people in the room and I was on my feet for three hours. So it’s a lot, my talks are interactive. So there’s lots of back and forth and lots of coaching and lots of action happening. But it’s a long three hours and this particular session was going really well. We’re getting great work done. We’re having a laugh. Everything’s going tickety-boo. And I’ve got this one woman in the back left-hand corner and she is not loving me, which is, you know, fine. I’m not for everybody, but at this point, I’m like about hour one of three. Everyone’s great, but I’m working for this one lady in the back left because when these things happened for me, I make it a game.

Right. I say, okay, what are all the tricks I got in my little bucket here to see if I can’t win this one over? So I leave it all on the racetrack, as you would say. And at the end of the three hours, who is the very first person who came up to me, Oh my God. It was incredible. Thank you. I learned so much. And I thought, well, where was the love two hours ago? Right. So, yeah, I mean, number one, it can be very altering and it can throw even the best off their game when you’ve got somebody who not only is not giving you anything back, but they’re giving you somewhat negative back. So there’s really a few things that I suggest people consider. The very first thing you got to do is you got to breathe because when someone is giving you negative feedback, whether non verbally or verbally, the very first thing you do is you kick into the fight, flight freeze, or fawn which are the four natural states we go into when our Migdal is hijacked.

And we immediately have a shutdown of the body. And that’s what keeps us safe. That’s the animal instinct in us is to either stop breathing. Or, we will engage in this shallow chest breath, which is because we’ve got so much adrenaline going through our system and our body is preparing us to run to flee. So you’ve got to breathe and you’ve got to calm the parasympathetic portion of your central nervous system down. You’ve got to make sure everything kind of comes back to a state of calm. And when that happens, your brain and your tongue can start working together. And when that happens, then you can start making some good decisions. Because now you’re engaged in the prefrontal cortex, which is helping you say, okay, we’re in a bit of a situation here where someone’s not happy with us.

So the first thing you gotta do is you gotta breathe somewhere in the second portion of this is you want to go back to, how did I want to come across in the very beginning of this presentation? What did I want? What did I say I wanted my brand description to be. So in that scenario, it may have been, I want to come across as confident, approachable, trustworthy, authentic, and sincere. So you want to remind yourself of what your end goal is. And then the other thing that I often suggest with people is don’t make too many assumptions straight out of the gate, because the reality is the everyone who’s coming into work and sitting around the boardroom table, or they’re sitting in front of their screens. There’s a life behind that face. There’s a life behind that business title. There’s a life behind that I’m the CEO of blah, blah, blah. There’s somebody who might have a sick child at home, that might have a sick parent at home. Maybe they had a little case of road rage on the way into the meeting. Maybe someone’s going through a bit of a sticky divorce. I mean, we bring all of our identities into the workplace with us. So if there’s something cooking, then it’s going to be seen on that person’s face. So that’s the other thing don’t assume it’s about you because in many cases it’s generally not. And the other obvious technique is to simply stop and check in with folks and say, okay, we’ve covered a good chunk of content so far. Does anyone have any thoughts or questions or concerns before we move on? Because I want to make sure that we’re all on the same page right now in doing that you also have to play with the eye contact as well. If that lady in the back left-hand corner is the person I’m working for. And she’s the one who’s got me a little nervous, then I might look at somebody in the back right. And I might say, folks I have offered a lot of information, any thoughts before we keep going? And then I’m going to share my eyes with a few other people around the room in the front and the back, and then in the front left. And then I might go back to her, but I’m not going to look at her and say, any thoughts, questions, concerns, anything you want to tell me. Right. That’s going to make it weird and awkward for her.

listenN:

Why do you look like such a sour puss?

Shoana Prasad:

Right, honestly, Brian, I was like, do I look like your husband’s mistress? Or what is happening here? This woman was just, she was on my tail. And you know what? I never knew what happened and I’ll never know. And it doesn’t matter because in reality, the tough audiences make you better. I’m sure you felt the same way too. In some of those really tough presentations you had to up your game because you had to.

listenN:

Yeah. And on a side story that adds to that is once we misunderstood a client’s request and we came in and completely pitched a completely different solution for a problem they didn’t even have. And, after the pitch, the client called me up and was like, Oh my God, how did you get it so wrong? And I was blindsided that we’d gotten it so wrong. But the end result was, she said, they were so impressed with your thinking and what you came up with around this problem – we didn’t have, they are excited to have you come back and pitch us on the actual problem we have. And they invited us back to pitch again, and we won the business, but if we hadn’t just been ourselves and been our authentic selves that would have just been a horrible, horrible experience. So that’s very valid and very good advice. Just be yourself and be authentic and make sure you leave them with the brand that you wanted to leave them with.

Shoana Prasad:

And the big win there too Brian, which I don’t want you to miss is the fact that they looked forward to you coming back.

listenN:

Oh yeah. That’s true.

Shoana Prasad:

People who don’t love presenting and I get it, not everyone is going to love it. I still get nervous. In fact, I get nervous when I don’t get nervous. Cause that tells me that I’m not on my toes and that I might be taking this skill for granted in a way. But you want to be somebody who, when you’re next on the agenda, people are like, Oh my God, I love him. When Brian presents, he’s fun. He’s easy. He keeps it light. He gets to the point. You want to be somebody, you want to be a brand that people look forward to seeing and to listening to and connecting with. And then, bigger than that your brand, becomes the thing that other people also want to be associated with,. Years ago when I started now, I’ve been doing this for over 20 years solo for just over 10.

And when I first went solo, of course you do what any sad little starter entrepreneur does, which is you reach out to your network of family ,of friends and say like, Hey, I’m putting up my own shingle. Would you considering hiring me? Or do you know anyone who would, who would benefit from this type of service that type of thing. I had been invited by a distant cousin of mine who was then the head of one of the regions of a very large office furniture company. And this gentlemen was so well-liked throughout the company globally, that the moment I walked in and there was of course the Chitty chat of how’s this and how’s that. And did you find the office okay? And how did you come to know this company? And I would say, well, so-and-so is a distant cousin and a good family friend. And before I could get to the end of the sentence, people generally had their hand on their heart and they said, Oh my God, I love him. He is such a good man. So all of a sudden I look good because he was the one that brought me in, right? So this is where this whole brand extension and who you are and who you’re connected with. It’s all about reputation, right? So that’s the other piece of how you want to be known as somebody who’s easy to chat with and connect with and get to the point, or whatever’s important to you and your name.

I often say to clients how you are around the boardroom table has everything to do with who you were around the kitchen table. So what were some of the messages that you got as you were sitting, having dinner with family? I know in my house, my father, again, small town, I’m the youngest of five kids, large Irish, Catholic family, and humility is a big value for my father. And he would often suggest to us warmly not to talk about yourself too much because that shows an arrogance. And that shows something that you’re assuming that other people want to know things about you that they haven’t asked. So, I joke that my father was both impressed and somewhat horrified with what I do for a living because I’m helping people feel comfort in self-promoting and not self-promoting for the sake of self-promoting, but self-promoting for the benefit of helping the other side, understand the value that they can bring and the contribution that they can bring to a company or a role or a team or whatever.

Shoana Prasad:

So it’s those little messages that we get along the way, again, at the kitchen table and little messages that we got throughout school and from teachers and from peers and moments throughout high school. Because as I said, you bring all of your identities to work with you. You know, when we see somebody who’s sitting around the boardroom table and perhaps they are somebody who’s really easygoing one-on-one, but when they’re in a larger format, they somewhat turn into somebody else. I don’t want to say this as true, and I certainly don’t want to make any big claims here, but I often find that people who are single children, or they come from a smaller network of family, they’re potentially not as big and bold as someone who comes from a larger network or they have extended family, or they have family from overseas.

You see cultural differences as well, as far as being comfortable being big and loud. And if anything, they have to work on a tuning their style to the style of their audience in the effort to better connect. Because if I’m speaking to an audience that is quiet and I’m going in with a big, bold attitude, that’s going to be a swing and a miss, right? You want to connect with people where they’re at. So there’s really a lot of things to consider when you’re working with a team of people and working within a company culture that is important for not only the culture overall, but even just the culture of your team. There’s a lot of talk around psychological safety right now, which I’m thrilled. It’s finally getting some airtime because I think it’s always been that thing that when teams work or they jive or something’s happening, but no one can really put their finger on what that thing is, it’s psychological safety. So the idea of psychological safety is can you offer an idea without feeling as though you’re going to be ridiculed or that people are going to say, well, that’s a dumb idea or whatever the case may be. And we see statistically in highly productive teams, there is a level of psychological safety. So if we can take that idea of psychological safety and start to look at what some of the cultural habits are and some of what the cultural norms are within that team and spread that out into other business units and then potentially at large, then we’re starting to build culture around our communication. And that has a big role in the overall company brand as well. It’s really all about communication habits, whether it’s, you’re coming from the kitchen table to the boardroom table, what are the habits? What are the messages? What are the habits that work? What are the habits that don’t work, that you need to reshape in order to move forward personally, or within the company?

listenN:

I love the conversation around psychological safety because, you know, yes, it’s becoming more of a concern, but it’s still got a long way to go in the business world. And as you know, that from the top down, bottom up, as people start to understand that’s the key, the key to success is creating it, I can totally understand the value of someone like yourself coming in and helping people communicate in a way that creates psychological safety. Cause that’s the thing that I think a lot of people don’t even understand. I know with myself personally, there are times I have said and done things in front of staff or in front of a group of people that has come across wrong and you don’t even know that you’ve done it. And it’s almost counterproductive to what I call the 50’s way of managing people, which is kind of just bark orders and get them to do what you want them to do, which creates no psychological safety. And so you’ve got these people that are balancing both, right? They’re trying to grow a business and make it successful. And it’s kind of counterintuitive to how they were trained and how they were brought up and because they were just demanded to do things. And so, yeah, I find that I could talk for hours about that with you. I’m sure.

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah. I know. I’m really excited about that piece of it because I think it’s, again, I don’t want to position myself as a cross-generational communication expert or anything of that sort, but I think there’s a couple things happening. I think there’s the workforce is changing and evolving and thus our communication is changing with it and that’s all very necessary and exciting by the way. And I think it’s also changing each generation is also changing what they want and need in communications. So if you look at those two pieces, and the other counterintuitive thing that’s also happening is number one, we’re seeing more productivity and more clear connected communications within teams and companies who have greater psychological safety. And then we’re also seeing greater productivity. I might even say to a fault because we’re risking burnout with what’s happening with people working from home, which is something that generations before would never dream of letting people work from home. Well, I can’t see them. I don’t know if they’re working. I don’t know if they’re producing and outputting and hitting goals. Well, guess what, they are because they have a certain sense of autonomy and they don’t have a monkey on their back, which gives them a sense of control and passion around their work because they can do what they want and need to do and see fit to do. And now management is saying, Oh, this is working. So if I give them, if I back off a bit, then that’s the way to do it. Yeah. That’s the way to do it.

listenN:

Yeah, the Netflix thing where you can have as much vacation as you need. Right? You just have to get your job done. If you went back 20 years and told people that they would go you’re crazy. You need to go to an insane asylum, you know, but meanwhile, it works.

Shoana Prasad:

Yeah. A hundred percent and people are happier. You know, and happy people are obviously going to produce. So yeah. Go with happy. Like what a novel idea, keep your people happy.

listenN:

And so your website is GlenwoodInc.com. G L E N W O O D I N C dot com. If anybody wants to reach out to you, I think that would be a great start. But one of the things I just wanted to end on is when I was on your website and I scroll down to the bottom, and this is where you were describing how you want people to feel and what’s at the bottom of your website is just such a Shoana kind of statement that just gives a little bit of an insight into who you are and how you approach the world. It’s that picture. And it says punch today in the face.

Shoana Prasad:

Yep. That’s me, Brian. I have also been known to give a rock and roll kick after a high level executive really gets what I’m saying and gets my coaching and we really nail that moment. I have been known to throw out a couple of rock and roll kicks in boardrooms, and I’m not afraid to admit it.

listenN:

So with that in mind, anybody out there who feels like they could have, or need some help in personal communication skills so they can punch today in the face, reach out to Shoana connect, have a conversation because like this conversation today, I think you have so much to offer people when it comes to personal, authentic communication. Shoana thank you so much for your time. It’s been a real pleasure.

Shoana Prasad:

Thank you. It’s been a pleasure. Always fun chatting, Brian.

listenN:

Thank you so much for taking this time.

Shoana Prasad:

Cheers. Bye.